SOTD: Hothon Se Choolon Tum – Prem Geet

37 Comments
  1. hithere 7 years ago

    He hasn’t sung many songs in movies but whatever he has sung have been good.

    • Author
      sputnik 7 years ago

      Agree. My friend used to have a double cassette of Arth and Saath Saath and both sides had very good songs composed by Jagjit.

  2. Suprabh 7 years ago

    Good song… I wanted to say more but won’t since its his death anniversary.

    • Author
      sputnik 7 years ago

      You are a Jagjit Singh hater πŸ˜€

      • Suprabh 7 years ago

        Thats an understatement, you are being polite πŸ˜‰

  3. fearedsoul 7 years ago

    sputnik – i think that calls for an automatic ban of suprabh. How can anyone not like Jagjit singh…….!

    • Author
      sputnik 7 years ago

      LOL

      For me Ghazals have become synonymous with Jagjit coz his were the first Ghazals that I heard and liked.

      You commmented on another thread about Taran’s reviews. May be you should do a Toran’s review of JTHJ and Talaash πŸ˜‰ Let me know if you want posting rights.

  4. Suprabh 7 years ago

    okay, since the mourning day is over now:

    Jagjit Singh is not a bad singer.. But his voice and style of singing combined, makes every ghazal he sings sounds the same..Thats why his geets (songs not ghazals) are way more popular than his ghazals(which he just spoils everytime)..Here are prime examples of his most popular works:

    Hoton se chhuu lo tum
    Chitthi na koi sandes
    Hosh waalon ko khabar kya
    woh kagaz ki kashti
    Tum itna jo muskura rahe ho
    Koi Fariyaad

    etc etc… All SONGs…In the ghazal universe, he is not a very sought after ghazal singer..

    So I dont mind him just as singer but as far as ghazal gayaki is concerned,,for me he is just a misfit. ghazal gayaki is not only about singing slowly with sadness in your voice.. Its very important to use your classical singing and express emotions in almost each word…Here’s where Ghulam Ali is unbeatable for me

    Here is an example: the same ghazal by both singers

    Sehma Sehma Dara sa Rehta hai

    First by Jagjit singh

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=HdgVLf4hVpI

    Now by Ghulam ali

    • Ritz 7 years ago

      Off late, I have started to have similar views on Jagjit.
      Especially post Mehdi Hassan’s death when I heard lot of his Ghazals and Ghulam Ali’s too.

    • hithere 7 years ago

      I guess you haven’t listened to his old ones. I like his old stuff better than the new one.
      I think you are discreding him for good voice. Most of the Ghazals singer don’t have mellifluous voice (including MehndiHassan or Ghulam Ali – I am not talking sur and taal) and we tend to associate ghazal singing with that kind of voice or hard to follow urdu words. Jaggu’s voice is more abnormal in Ghazal singing.

      • Suprabh 7 years ago

        hithere,

        I have heardhis old songs as well. My uncle is a big fan of jaggu. and actually, I wasn’t talking about the voice quality here..I was talking about emoting through voice which is the most important part of ghazal gayaki..
        In the previous example: Listen to both songs and you will notice, Ghulam ali was able to emote the “sehma dara” right from the first line, whereas Jaggu used his same old “I am sad” expression throughout the song.

        By the way, understanding your comment about voice quality in the way you intended, I do think Ghulam ali’s classical trained is voice is melliflous at times:

        Check out the following songs

        Humko kiske gham ne maara

        Ruse russe (punjabi song)

        hithere,

        I have heardhis old songs as well. My uncle is a big fan of jaggu. and actually, I wasn’t talking about the voice quality here..I was talking about emoting through voice which is the most important part of ghazal gayaki..
        In the previous example: Listen to both songs and you will notice, Ghulam ali was able to emote the “sehma dara” right from the first line, whereas Jaggu used his same old “I am sad” expression throughout the song.

        By the way, understanding your comment about voice quality in the way you intended, I do think Ghulam ali’s classical trained is voice is melliflous at times:

        Check out the following songs

        Humko kiske gham ne maara

        https://youtube.com/watch?v=8XSmeevnygA

        Ruse russe (punjabi song)

      • Ritz 7 years ago

        I agree that usually I dont like very sweet/thin/mellifluous voice in Ghazals or even in songs – as mostly singers with such voice go very shrill in high pitched songs,

        but I like Rais Khan very much who has a mellifluous voice.

    • fearedsoul 7 years ago

      “In the ghazal universe, he is not a very sought after ghazal singer..”

      Do you have anything to prove that Suprabh – or just shooting of the hip ;-). I totally disagree – have been to many of his concerts and I think he is one of the most popular Ghazal singers. He has this amazing ability to connect to his audience – unlike lot of the other singers in this genre. There are stories of women buying first row tickets to his concerts and sitting and crying as they listen to him. To me – he is easily the best ghazal singer among all the others – maybe others sing better etc etc – but Jagjit is the only one who makes me want to listen to ghazals.

      I dont see anything similar in Woh kaagz ki kashti and Hoton se choo lo tum – to me they are different as chalk and cheese. I have a personal theory – which probably is hogwash πŸ˜‰ — but I believe people start appreciating ghazals more as they age.

      • Suprabh 7 years ago

        fearedsoul :D.

        I believe Jagjit singh is a poor man’s ghazal maestro πŸ˜‰ When I said Ghazal universe..I am not referring to ghazal newbies or cocktail women..I am talking about ghazal gharanas and old school fans (which, as a matter of fact is diminishing by the day) …

        But I do not want to take anything away from anyone..If he connects with millions,,good for them. In the end it boils down to individual preference

        Regarding– hoton se chuu lo tum and Woh kagaz ki kashti– the only point I made was they are NOT Ghazals and while 70% of JAgjit singh audience does not realize that difference… To them slow singing in THAT particular fashion is Ghazal..Thats why for me

        Mehdi Hasan is Ghalib
        Ghulam Ali is Gulzar (even much more than that)
        Jagjit singh is Sameer

        Btw do listen to Sehma Sehma Dara Dara– by both Jagjit singh and Ghulam Ali , in the videos posted above.

        • aryan 7 years ago

          Suprabh
          I like your comment good comparison Mehdi Hasan is Ghalib
          Ghulam Ali is Gulzar (even much more than that)
          Jagjit singh is Sameer

          The third one should be Jagjit is Javid Akthar.

        • hithere 7 years ago

          Sehma sehma comparison – Is a different note.Obviously Jagjit is newer rendition it needs to be different. Same song could be sung in many ways. I can show videoes which would show just opposite.

          • Suprabh 7 years ago

            Yes same song can be sung in many ways..but I find all Jagjit songs having just one way- “I am sad”

          • hithere 7 years ago

            Try this

        • hithere 7 years ago

          • Suprabh 7 years ago

            hithere,

            thats not really a conventional ghazal..Its a typical geet–same as hoton se chuu lo tum..Thats where most people mix geets and ghazals.

  5. Rotlu 7 years ago

    I just like his famous songs. they are indeed excellent. Other than that i don’t even dare to listen.

  6. Suprabh 7 years ago

    btw I did listen to that hish waalon ko khabar kya performance– and It was indeed good– both vocals and music–but again its again a geet..bordering on a ghazal….Here is an example of something similar which is a ghazal and not a geet..

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=8XSmeevnygA

  7. Author
    sputnik 7 years ago

    Jagjit Singh explaining the difference between a Ghazal and a Nazm

    • Ritz 7 years ago

      But what he is explaining here is just difference in them on paper – as in poetry.

      Suprabh I think was saying that he sings Ghazals also as a geet.

      Suprabh, correct me if I am wrong on the below

      I see Ghazal singing as a form of semi-classical singing form like a thumri or dadra etc, where there is a grammer of sur and taal. If you remember I had defended Jagjit earlier, but then I listed to a lot – I mean a hell lot of Mehdi and Begam Akhtar and it changed my opinion. Correct me if I am wrong in what I say below:

      I think the way Jagjit sings is – kind of monotonous – he is kind of easy on the grammer of raag and sur – which makes it easy for the geet listeners as most of our film songs are geets.
      Maybe the examples you have posted above do not explain it properly as Ghulam Ali videos posted above are mostly having a different setting of instruments (poora mahual alag hai – its more like a live setting and there is no flute etc playing )
      Now here is a Ghazal by Mehdi which has similar setting like most Jagjit’s – the flute and the mood (recorded and not a live) . But see what he does with the words..

      The way he sings “khuli jo aankh to wo tha…na zamana tha” – notice the alap / gayaki on “zamana tha” Here Jagjit would have gone easy..
      even the next “Ghamo no baant liya hai hame”…and so on..

      • Ritz 7 years ago

        Most beautiful portion I like in this Ghazal – I mean the way Mehdi Hassan has sung it –

        “Ye kya ki chand kadamon pe …thak ke ..baith gaye”

        No, its not about just raag and all alaps – but notice how he emotes on “thak ke” and then “baith gaye” without any alaps etc…its pure emoting and true to the meaning of the words.

        • Ritz 7 years ago

          Lastly, some Ghazal singers are not so classically trained and still do not the grammer of raag, but the voice is like a good folk singer and emote very well – its not monotonous like Jagjit.

          • Suprabh 7 years ago

            Yes Ritz,

            Classical singing and the use of sur and taal plays an extremely important role in Ghazal Gayaki,,Moreover , as you mentioned, the way the singer emotes the lyrics is very, very important..Thats the reason, Ghulam ali, sometimes, modulates his voice so many times to convey the right emotion, in the same ghazal..

            In the ghazal, Aawargi– there is a line as follows

            “Har zarra chamakta hai, anware ilaahi se
            har saans ye kehti hai, hum hain toh khuda bhi hai”

            Notice, that the first line is more of gratitude towards the lord and accepting his presence and appriciating it..while the second line is more of a remark on ones own importance and hence meant to be said with command.

            Listen to the song (its the last verse) and you will clearly notice what I mean.

    • Author
      sputnik 6 years ago

      For Ritz, Suprabh and others interested in definition of Ghazal this is a good read. Thanks to Pavan Jha for the link.

      “There is book/dictionary/colection of Sher’s
      titled “Aaina-e-ghazal”, which IMHO is a treasure for every Ghazal
      fan. In this there is a long essay – “Ghazal kya hai ?” by Dr.Arshad
      Jamaal.
      The essay is written in Hindi, and is about History of Ghazal, its
      development, its milestones, important Shayar’s etc. One part of it
      describes the definition of Ghazal. The following is loosely based
      on that. The essay talks only about what IS a Ghazal. To that I have
      added in the following, what is NOT a Ghazal. So any mistakes in these
      parts, are mine. [ These are enclosed in square brackets like this. ]

      Also one thing should be kept in mind that, this is not mathematics.
      So “preciseness” of the “definition” should not be questioned.

      ———————————————————————–

      Classical Definition of Ghazal
      ===============================

      Ghazal in short, is a collection of Sher’s which follow the rules of
      ‘Matla’, ‘Maqta’, ‘Beher’, ‘Kaafiyaa’ and ‘Radif’. So to know what
      Ghazal is, it’s necessary to know what these terms mean.

      To understand these terms easily , we will take an example.

      1. koi ummid bar nahin aati
      koi surat nazar nahin aati
      2. aage aati thi haale dil par hasi
      ab kisi baat par nahin aati
      3. hum wahan hain, jahan se humko bhi
      kucch hamaari khabar nahin aati
      4. kaabaa kis muh se jaaoge ‘Ghalib’
      sharm tumko magar nahin aati

      What is a Sher ?
      It’s a poem of two lines. This definition is deceptively simple.
      Please note that, every Sher is a poem in itself ! A Sher does not
      need, anything around it, to convey the message.
      All the 4 stanzas in our example are independent poems, Sher’s.

      So Ghazal is necessarily a collection of two-line-poems called Sher.
      [ So the Rafi solo “rang aur noor ki baaraat kise pesh karu” is NOT
      a Ghazal, as every stanza is of 3 lines, and not 2. ]

      What are other restrictions ? Many, and important ones.
      [ Any collection of Sher’s is not Ghazal. Some good examples are ; the
      famous Mukesh song from Yehoodi, “yeh mera deewaanaapan hai” ; and the
      title song of “dil apana aur preet parayi”. Each stanza in these songs
      can be considered as an independent Sher, but they are NOT Ghazal’s.
      To understand, why, we have to wait till ‘Kaafiyaa, ‘Radif’. ]

      What is ‘Beher’ ?
      ‘Beher’ is the ‘meter’ of the Sher’s. It can be considered as the
      length of the Sher. Both the lines in the Sher *MUST* be of
      same ‘Beher’. And all the Sher’s in one Ghazal *MUST* be of the
      same ‘Beher’. There are 19 (!!) kinds of ‘Beher’. But in simple terms,
      ‘Beher’ is categorized in 3 classes. Short, medium, long.
      [ The examples in [] are my additions, from Hindi Films. ]

      Small :
      ahale dairo-haram reh gaye
      tere deewane kam reh gaye
      [ Also Talat song, “dil-e-nadan tuze hua kya hai” ]

      Medium :
      umr jalwo me basar ho, ye zaruri to nahin
      har shab-e-gam ki seher ho, ye zaruri to nahin
      [ And by Gulzar, “ruke ruke se kadam, ruk ke baar baar chale” ]

      Long :
      ai mere humnashin, chal kahin aur chal, is chaman me ab apanaa guzaaraa nahin
      baat hoti gulon ki, to seh lete hum, ab to kaaton pe bhi haq hamaaraa nahin
      [ The filmfare winner, “Manzile apani jagah hai” !! Yes ! It IS a Ghazal.
      And the Shayar is Prakash Mehra !! surprise , surprise !! ]

      So Ghazal is a collection of Sher’s of SAME ‘Beher’.

      What is ‘Radif’ ?
      In a Ghazal, second line of all the Sher’s *MUST* end with the *SAME*
      word/s. This repeating common words is the ‘Radif’ of the Ghazal.

      In our example, the ‘Radif’ is “nahin aati”.

      [ Sometimes, the Ghazal becomes known by its ‘Radif’. eg. “jaraa
      aahista chal” sung by Pankaj Udhas. On RMIM we all know one Ghazal by
      the ‘Radif’ as “aahista aahista”, don’t we ? or is it 2 or 3 ? πŸ™‚ ]

      What is ‘Kaafiyaa’ ?
      ‘Kaafiyaa’ is the rhyming pattern which all the words before ‘Radif’
      *MUST* have.

      In our example the ‘Kaafiyaa’ is “bar”, “nazar”, “par”, “magar” etc.
      This is a necessary requirement. Something which is followed even in
      the exceptions to all these rules.

      So Ghazal is a collection of Sher’s of same ‘Beher’, ending in same
      ‘Radif’ and having same ‘Kaafiyaa’.
      [ That’s the reason, why “yeh mera diwanapan hai” etc. are NOT Ghazals.
      There is no common thing which can be called ‘Kaafiyaa’ and ‘Radif’. ]

      What is ‘Matla’ ?
      The first Sher in the Ghazal *MUST* have ‘Radif’ in its both lines.
      This Sher is called ‘Matla’ of the Ghazal and the Ghazal is usually
      known after its ‘Matla’. There can be more than one ‘Matla’ in a
      Ghazal. In such a case the second one is called ‘Matla-e-saani’ or
      ‘Husn-e-matla’.
      In our example, the first Sher is the ‘Matla’.

      What is ‘Maqta’ ?
      A Shayar usually has an alias ie. ‘takhallus’ eg. Mirza Asadullakhan
      used ‘Ghalib’ as his ‘takhallus’ and is known by that. Other examples
      are ‘Daag’ Dehlvi, ‘Mir’ Taqi Mir, Said ‘Rahi’, Ahmed ‘Faraz’ etc.
      There is a Sher in a Ghazal, the last one, which has the Shayar’s
      ‘takhallus’ in it.
      [ A Shayar, can use the ‘Maqta’ very intelligently. He can “talk to
      himself” like one in our example. I have lots of favourite Sher’s
      which are ‘Maqta’ of some Ghazal. Some gems are
      koi nam-o-nishan puchhe to ai kaasid bataa denaa,
      takhallus ‘Daag’ hai, aur aahiqon ke dil me rehte hai
      and
      jab bhi milte hain, to kehte hain, “kaise ho ‘Shakil'”,
      iske aage to koi baat nahin hoti hai
      The first one uses the meaning of the ‘takhallus’ to create the
      magic, and the second one is just simple, simply beautiful. ]

      To summarize, Ghazal is a collection of Sher’s (independent two-line
      poems), in which there is atleast one ‘Matla’, one ‘Maqta’ and all
      the Sher’s are of same ‘Beher’ and have the same ‘Kaafiyaa’ and
      ‘Radif’.

      EXCEPTIONS AND IMP. POINTS TO NOTE
      ==================================

      1. Ghazal is just a form. It is independent of any language.
      eg. in Marathi also, there can be (and there are) good Ghazals.

      2. Some Ghazal’s do NOT have any ‘Radif’. Rarely. Such Ghazal’s
      are called “gair-muraddaf” Ghazal.

      3. Although, every Sher, should be an independent poem in itself,
      it is possible, that all the Sher’s are on the same theme. What
      famous example can be other than “chupke chupke raat din aasun
      bahaanaa yaad hai”.

      4. In modern Urdu poetry, there are lots of Ghazal’s which do
      NOT follow the restriction of same ‘Beher’ on both the lines
      of Sher. [ My example in ‘Maqta’, the Sher by Shakil, is one. ]
      But even in these Ghazal’s, ‘Kaafiyaa’ and ‘Radif’ are present.

      5. The restriction of ‘Maqta’ is really very loose. Many many
      Ghazal’s do NOT have any ‘Maqta’. [ I think ‘Maqta’ was used in
      the earlier times, as a way to keep the credit. But since this is
      traditional, many Ghazal’s do have a ‘Maqta’ just for the sake of it.
      Sometimes the name of the Shayar comes unnaturally in the last
      Sher of the Ghazal. ]”

      Link

      • rajesh 6 years ago

        Thanks Sputnik for posting this interesting information, I also have a great interest in Ghazals. Infact I have a very good collection of Ghazals as recorded cassettes.

        • Author
          sputnik 6 years ago

          You are welcome.

  8. Ritz 7 years ago

    Sup, unfortunately I couldnt get a youtube video which has those lines.

    “β€œHar zarra chamakta hai, anware ilaahi se
    har saans ye kehti hai, hum hain toh khuda bhi hai””

    And they are really amazing lines. If you get the youtube link pls post it.

    IMO one of the worst compositions of Jagjit was “Dil-e-Naada tujhe hua kya hai”. I mean its ok to sing in that sad tone for a “Na tha kuchh to Khuda tha” but for a Ghazal like “Dil-e-naada” where lover is excited as well as confused in love … he maintains same sad tone and mood….while the meaning (mudda) is quite different- lover (he/she is unable to understand the condition of his/her heart / and questioning him/herself )

    The second sher of the Ghazal goes like this:

    ham hai mushtaaq aur vo bezaar
    yaa ilaahii ye maajaraa kyaa hai

    [mushtaaq=interested; bezaar=displeased/sick of]

    Jagjit version: (Notice the above sher in this)

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=YarPIoatbRo

    Now, listen to the below Ghazal by Mehdi on how he pronounces the word “Mustaaq” (being interested) and then “bezaar”(sick of).
    …2:35 onwards…

    While Jagjit’s composition is “Bezaar” on the word “Mustaaq” also πŸ˜›

  9. Suprabh 7 years ago

    sorry ritz,

    I mentioned aawargi as the song while its “hungama hai kyun burpa”..listen to the full song (its very interesting)

    the line comes at about 8:08

    • Ritz 7 years ago

      Thou I dont have a very good opinion of Amir Khan, this song made me listen to couple of his records which I have – as he was said to be good in this raag – Darbari Kanada.

      Thanks a lot Sup, the Ghazal was lovely and I am already a fan of Ghulam Ali more so now (yet not decided on Amir thou with his not so peasant / show-off kind and an un-appealing singing style) ..

      Singing off for today …thanks again

      • Suprabh 7 years ago

        Ritz,

        btw I heard the songs posted above-dil ae nadan– I only heard the female voice there..anyways..I searched on youtube and found the version where he sings the first sher,,yes he did sing in a sad tone (like thats a surprise) but i think they might have wanted in that way(don’t know why) becaue even the violin was played in a sad tone.

        • Ritz 7 years ago

          Sup, its Sarangi – not violin. (not sure on which video u seen but I think he used Sarangi in his voice song also)

          Btw, dedicating this Ghazal to hithere/sputnik/sup/feared and fearless and ALL

          In the loop from morning: love the meaning and the way it is sung / composed:

          (Sputnik, please put embed code – sorry I didnt login again this time πŸ™ )

          • Ritz 7 years ago

            Thanks Sputnik

  10. Anjanpur685Miles 6 years ago

    Thanks Sputnik for the link.

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